Grace and discipline Grace or discipline Grace and/or discipline Can you have your cake and eat it too? Can you gather around you and be encouraged by people of like mind?
I do love U2...
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Anonymous
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Grace and discipline. Both are needed. It is pretty clear throughout the New Testament that everything we should do should be being done through us by the Holy Spirit. Over and over again (Rom 8, Gal 5, 1 Cor 2) Paul teaches that only by living in freedom from self imposed rules can we find life in the spirit and produce anything of worth. However, in Titus Paul also says to teach the young men first to be self-disciplined; also, he says that he beats his own body. In my own life this has worked out to a compromise in this way: The things of the world I must discipline myself to do—work, exercise, diet, study, and other responsibilities. Spiritual things, though, are only accomplished through an abiding life with Christ, therefore, my sole responsibility is to seek to continually be surrendering my ‘self’ to Christ, be in a constant state of surrender and the spiritual things work themselves out.
I'm taking it in. I think you might be a teacher. I'm not saying you're one of those dudes who stands up in front of a classroom and waves a textbook, but you may be one of those peripethetic (however you spell it) teachers - teach as you go. Well, don't listen to me; I haven't even known you very long.
So, what do you think about the term "spiritual disciplines"? Is that just something we've tossed around as a Christian community because it sounds good?
How does one live an abiding life in Christ? Does this not take discipline? These words sound like discipline: "...seek continually to be surrendering 'self' to Christ..." I'm wary of the verbiage of the day concerning spirituality. If we don't know what spiritual things are, how can we know that they're working themsleves out? So we have a nuance between 'allowing the Holy Spirit', and thinking we've got to "do" in order to allow the Holy Spirit. We teach spirituality as a step-by-step thing. "5 steps to walking in the spirit", But we don't know what that means, so we do the 5 steps and assume we're walking. Grace/Discipline? Who has discipliine that will amount to anything? Maybe grace enables me to be disciplined so that I can experience what Grace has made available. I don't think Grace is a step in the process. It doesn't get applied at step three, or to certain aspects of Christ-following. It is the atomic level concept that keeps me from disentgrating. I do know that when she walks down the street, I can hear the strings.
I liked your line, "Who has discipline that will amount to anything?" I know I don't. I am wondering about the grace allows us to be disciplined part. Discipline to me just has bad connotations. Is it possible that grace redeems discipline? Like the Law. I can't figure out where I was going with that. Maybe someone else can pick it up...
We talked about this at little church tonight - well, I talked about it, I guess. Started with others talking about being disciplined, and God bringing or allowing pain as a way of disciplining us. Talk about bad connotations! I mentioned that this applies to my rant about retro-applying current contexts to biblical concepts. We now associate discipline with punishment or correction. That of course IS a tiny aspect of "discipleship" but certainly not the main thing. God gives applies his grace to us to enable us to endure. I think sometimes our endurance causes us to swell, so I wondered if he also sometimes withdraws that grace to allow us to brought back down, and then in retrospect his withdrawal will be seen as grace because through it, we were brought closer to him. It occurs to me that God only acts toward us in Grace. Whatever his action, it is grace. Because he has loved me, I am not consumed. Great is his faithfulness.
We haven't decided positively yet about turkey day. Looks like we'll probably go to WV to my parents'. If we stay here, your welcome to hang and sup with us. For that matter, your welcome to go to WV with us too.
Well, for Thanksgiving, Lauren Marshall invited me to her casa in Atlanta, so I'll be taken care of. Thanks, though! Could you e-mail me the songs for Sunday?
7 comments:
Grace and discipline. Both are needed. It is pretty clear throughout the New Testament that everything we should do should be being done through us by the Holy Spirit. Over and over again (Rom 8, Gal 5, 1 Cor 2) Paul teaches that only by living in freedom from self imposed rules can we find life in the spirit and produce anything of worth. However, in Titus Paul also says to teach the young men first to be self-disciplined; also, he says that he beats his own body. In my own life this has worked out to a compromise in this way: The things of the world I must discipline myself to do—work, exercise, diet, study, and other responsibilities. Spiritual things, though, are only accomplished through an abiding life with Christ, therefore, my sole responsibility is to seek to continually be surrendering my ‘self’ to Christ, be in a constant state of surrender and the spiritual things work themselves out.
I'm taking it in. I think you might be a teacher. I'm not saying you're one of those dudes who stands up in front of a classroom and waves a textbook, but you may be one of those peripethetic (however you spell it) teachers - teach as you go. Well, don't listen to me; I haven't even known you very long.
So, what do you think about the term "spiritual disciplines"? Is that just something we've tossed around as a Christian community because it sounds good?
How does one live an abiding life in Christ? Does this not take discipline? These words sound like discipline: "...seek continually to be surrendering 'self' to Christ..."
I'm wary of the verbiage of the day concerning spirituality. If we don't know what spiritual things are, how can we know that they're working themsleves out?
So we have a nuance between 'allowing the Holy Spirit', and thinking we've got to "do" in order to allow the Holy Spirit.
We teach spirituality as a step-by-step thing. "5 steps to walking in the spirit", But we don't know what that means, so we do the 5 steps and assume we're walking.
Grace/Discipline?
Who has discipliine that will amount to anything?
Maybe grace enables me to be disciplined so that I can experience what Grace has made available. I don't think Grace is a step in the process. It doesn't get applied at step three, or to certain aspects of Christ-following. It is the atomic level concept that keeps me from disentgrating.
I do know that when she walks down the street, I can hear the strings.
I liked your line, "Who has discipline that will amount to anything?" I know I don't. I am wondering about the grace allows us to be disciplined part. Discipline to me just has bad connotations. Is it possible that grace redeems discipline? Like the Law. I can't figure out where I was going with that. Maybe someone else can pick it up...
P.S. Rod, what are you doing for turkey day?
We talked about this at little church tonight - well, I talked about it, I guess. Started with others talking about being disciplined, and God bringing or allowing pain as a way of disciplining us. Talk about bad connotations! I mentioned that this applies to my rant about retro-applying current contexts to biblical concepts. We now associate discipline with punishment or correction. That of course IS a tiny aspect of "discipleship" but certainly not the main thing.
God gives applies his grace to us to enable us to endure. I think sometimes our endurance causes us to swell, so I wondered if he also sometimes withdraws that grace to allow us to brought back down, and then in retrospect his withdrawal will be seen as grace because through it, we were brought closer to him. It occurs to me that God only acts toward us in Grace. Whatever his action, it is grace. Because he has loved me, I am not consumed. Great is his faithfulness.
We haven't decided positively yet about turkey day. Looks like we'll probably go to WV to my parents'.
If we stay here, your welcome to hang and sup with us. For that matter, your welcome to go to WV with us too.
Well, for Thanksgiving, Lauren Marshall invited me to her casa in Atlanta, so I'll be taken care of. Thanks, though! Could you e-mail me the songs for Sunday?
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